Talk:Creddie/@comment-3541132-20140211054528/@comment-14284535-20140315215658
Thank you, Sockstar1. This has been a wonderfully illuminating discussion. This one and the one I had with Godluvsusall made me really understand the Creddie point of view pretty thoroughly. There is one point that you and I disagree on fundamentally that I think is entirely based upon a person's beliefs, mental make-up, emotional make-up, and experience which precludes either of us agreeing with the other. For all I know, I am completely wrong. Having said that, here's the point of contention in three pieces: Is the premise of this that because they are trying to force the relationship to be BF-GF and, in your terms, "the romantic relationship is invalid", then they don't have romantic love for each other? Yes. That is specifically my premise. They both mutually agreed that they were forcing a relationship where it didn't fit, in the same way that Spencer & his girlfriend were doing. Are you arguing that because Sam and Freddie broke up, they did not love each other romantically? Yes. They had a mutual break up as a result of coming to the conclusion that their relationship was 'forced' and 'wrong'. If they did love each other romantically they would not have believed their relationship was forced and/or wrong. Are you also saying that Freddie would not have gone back to Carly if Sam and Freddie did love each other romantically. I'm saying they never would have broken up in the first place. I believe that depending on the person, s/he may love romantically once in a lifetime (you are apparently in this group), s/he may love more than once in a lifetime (I am in this group), s/he may more than one simultaneously (yes, they do exist), or s/he may love communally (yes, I know one of these as well). That does not even count hetero-, homo-, or bi-sexuality. I know I have been in love more than once before. I wanted to get married at 21 and actually got engaged at 36 to someone else - and that's aside from being proposed to by three different women I had known for a long time in the interim. Maybe we are different or even define love differently. Because we fundamentally disagree on this point, we are never going to see eye-to-eye nor are we going to interpret certain parts of the series in a mutually acceptable fashion. Moreover, I don't believe that the right person for anyone at age, say, 17, is necessarily the right person for them at age 30. I will, however, point out that there is NO WAY that Seddiers are ever going to believe that the declarations of love in "iLove You" are anything other than romantic (which is also my interpretation). Your view of Creddie being the default (very reasonable, given the show's format) and romantic love makes it the way you can and should interpret that, which is fine. But please, don't presume that people who either don't agree with you that Creddie is the default or don't have your view on whether or not one person can love more than once in a lifetime will ever agree with you on this point. I am with you about Seddiers' denial about the Creddie kiss in iGoodbye. I have said - maybe somewhat outlandishly, but I don't think so - that Dan Schneider basically lied to them about how to interpret the kiss because otherwise Sam & Cat was dead in the water. Nothing I have seen since has made me budge even one inch off that position. I also agree that Dan Schneider has done nobody a service in Sam & Cat's TKTJ by ignoring the Creddie kiss. Also, one wonders with Carly saying she has no secrets from Sam and Freddie, do we presume that she knows about Freddie asking Sam out and Sam knows about the Creddie kiss? My guess is that Dan Schneider realised he had dug himself a huge hole and just ignored everything in iGoodbye.